Designing Destinations: The Evolution of Hospitality

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Gensler Design Podcast. The Gensler Design Podcast creates a dialogue between

[00:00:14] design experts, creative trend centers and thought leaders to discuss how we can shape

[00:00:18] the future of cities through the power of design. I'm your host David Cochans, the Regional

[00:00:22] Managing Principal of Gensler's Asia Pacific and Middle East region.

[00:00:28] In the past 18 months, we witnessed an extraordinary resurgence in both domestic and international

[00:00:32] travel. Business trips and leisure adventures are on the rise as consumer expectations evolve.

[00:00:39] As a result, the hospitality sector is experiencing a profound shift propelled by changing

[00:00:44] consumer preferences, technological progress, and a growing emphasis on wellness. This evolution

[00:00:50] necessitates that hotels and related establishments proactively anticipate and respond to these

[00:00:55] shifts to meet the expectations of today's discerning guests. To help us dissect these trends and

[00:01:00] understand their implications, I'm glad to have Kirk Ellis with us. Kirk is Gensler APME's Director

[00:01:06] of Hospitality and he brings a wealth of experience and expertise to the conversation. Hey, Kirk,

[00:01:11] are you today? Hey David, I'm great. Thanks. Always good to talk with you. We see each other all

[00:01:16] the time in the office, but it's always good to talk with you in this format too. Well, it's great to

[00:01:20] have you on the podcast. You're based in Singapore like I am and you're a hospitality pro. So you've

[00:01:26] been in the industry for a long time, have designed a whole wide variety of facilities for hospitality

[00:01:32] and in various locations around the world. Can you give us a little bit of a snapshot of your

[00:01:37] background and also talk about your connections to Asia? Sure. David, I feel really fortunate.

[00:01:42] I've spent 30 years working in hospitality design and really that was my first job out of

[00:01:46] university. We're just looking for a job, had a connection. It happened to be a person who was

[00:01:50] designing resorts mostly in Asia, but he was based in the Los Angeles area where I grew up,

[00:01:56] just super fortunate. And when I got in is a fresh graduate junior junior architect,

[00:02:02] I started learning about this fantastic complex relationship between a guest experience, especially

[00:02:07] in resorts, the operation of the hotel. Yet we as architects designers, we've got to make this

[00:02:12] all come together and I was bitten by the bug then. So I was no going back. I've really,

[00:02:17] really enjoyed all my time in the industry. Yeah, that's my basic background, my connection to Asia.

[00:02:22] I started coming to Asia first in 2010. And that fit me well because just having grown up in the US,

[00:02:28] I was always looking for other cultural experiences. And so I lived in Shanghai, I lived in Bangkok

[00:02:35] and I'm now in Singapore. I think for me what's been very fortunate too is that the opportunity,

[00:02:40] it's a very fresh look at what's going on. Europe, North America are pretty mature markets and

[00:02:45] there's just so much going on. So I've been really happy to be working in Asia for quite some while now.

[00:02:50] So you talked about a lot going on in the industry. Could you talk specifically about

[00:02:54] what the changes have been in the last five years let's say? Obviously a lot of things in the

[00:02:59] world have happened since then but what are you seeing in the hospitality industry across our region?

[00:03:05] Sure, I design buildings and actually I oversee the integration of designs of different

[00:03:09] consultants plus our own teams. But I've always enjoyed focusing on the operations business side of what

[00:03:15] our clients, the developer or the hotel, yeah, what they're looking at. And I've always found that to be

[00:03:20] fascinating just personally professionally but actually I believe helps us to design better. So

[00:03:24] I'm going to answer that question by what I've been hearing from them the past five years pre

[00:03:29] during in post-COVID. First of all, the hotel part of the hospitality industry is pretty slow

[00:03:35] changing the slow evolving industry. It's kind of like the big freighter ship. That's because there's

[00:03:40] so much complexity in each hotel building, there's so much investment and those buildings last a long

[00:03:45] time that it has to be a little bit foolproof or future proof. So not a whole lot of revolution

[00:03:50] changes what did change through COVID in Asia. The sales and expectation of different markets. So

[00:03:57] Chinese tourism we all know up huge in Southeast Asia pulled back during COVID coming back now.

[00:04:03] But on the economics sales and how they operate the hotel, they've kind of countered that.

[00:04:08] That's what I'll be confident to talk about we figured out how to work around this. So for us as

[00:04:13] designers there's not a huge impact in that. I think where we start to see an impact is people

[00:04:18] absolutely are looking for experiences. They're and that's the experience economy which we've

[00:04:23] known about for quite a long time. They grew out of retail. In that the guest room is still the guest room

[00:04:28] your bed your good shower your comfortable bedding etc so that's always going to be foundational.

[00:04:33] I think the changes that are just actually starting to come about which is the exciting part is F&B

[00:04:38] food and beverage is really going to be changing because in this day of depends on your region if it's

[00:04:43] door dash or Uber Eats or wherever you live those services now can deliver any meal into the hotel.

[00:04:50] And this is actually a point that the CEO of Accord the big French company Sebastian Bezé made

[00:04:56] in a conference last year of hotel investment people's like we gotta we keep rethinking this so

[00:05:01] there's some exciting things that are opening up and that's some of the growth that's coming but

[00:05:05] this the the foundational parts of a hotel a good room good lobby experience mediums when it's

[00:05:11] needed in the market those are still yeah I'm going to remain there. Talking about the future

[00:05:15] looking forward what strategies can designers use to influence the future of hospitality experiences

[00:05:21] as we move forward? I think you know when we work with clients again because the architecture part

[00:05:26] of a hotel is such a long-term bill we're thinking 40 years in the future. The guest room we have to

[00:05:32] kind of commit to something very early on and there's a lot of variety we could do for the guestroom

[00:05:37] part but there's just a lot of opportunity or risk taking and doing that so let's kind of put the

[00:05:41] guestroom part aside for then as designers a mixed use hotel what's really embedded with other

[00:05:47] services around it's retail its office it's good public place that's really where the the fund

[00:05:53] the magic is now on the investment side when I keep paying for more clients is this mixed use

[00:05:57] project sometimes can be better to have carry the costs of the hotel which is expensive to build

[00:06:03] or which we again are doing quite a lot of now including Brenner residential Brenner residential

[00:06:08] is just taking off as a part of the industry it's valued by the guest it's valued by people to own

[00:06:14] something it's branded it's valued by the operators to say we have another vehicle to sell a room

[00:06:19] night to an experience to a guest so as designers and that gives us another chance to help to really

[00:06:25] knit more opportunities into each hotel property I've noticed it seems like the trend is toward

[00:06:32] personalization in terms of what the brands are doing and it seems like technology is being leveraged

[00:06:38] to achieve some of that how are hotels leveraging data and technology to craft these tailored

[00:06:44] experiences for the individual guests yes again I'm going to answer it in two different channels one

[00:06:50] what I hear from our clients people who are in the industry the pre sales pre-marketing during

[00:06:57] your experience and post-experience that loyalty is really really important you know that's why

[00:07:02] Barrett has more than 30 brands held in a core they're actually looking for that brand loyalty

[00:07:06] that people stay in their system and they've been able to really use the fluidity of

[00:07:13] that online marketing and digital and that's just a part of the world we live in for the corner

[00:07:17] stone of a good hotel unless it's truly just businesses you're looking for an experience as

[00:07:21] beyond your daily experience right you get as you just said David you get a nice hotel you want

[00:07:25] to have something feel better than what you have at home but a romantic little aspirational little

[00:07:30] bit maybe educational adventurous and so digital technology how can we embed digital design how can

[00:07:37] we embed crossover events that are cultural events that come to the hotel or vice versa

[00:07:42] that sort of exchange it's really the soft goods part of it it's people in programs

[00:07:47] the key is our buildings have to support those that's where it's still important to make sure

[00:07:51] that the hotel planning and interior design can flex or at least accommodate those things that's

[00:07:56] what I see our our role really being as we go forward I want if you could sort of look at the

[00:08:00] future of hotel staffing I think a shortage of workers is in many industries has been a problem

[00:08:06] worldwide but how do you think technology can help sort of offset or make staffing issues

[00:08:11] these years we go forward yes this is definitely an issue as far as the the pain point of staffing

[00:08:18] is really tough right now in the industry we've expanded the offering to the guest and when we

[00:08:23] design hotels when we're working with that operator brand and developer hopefully the owner we're

[00:08:28] always talking about its opportunities what are your choices for your investment in this which

[00:08:32] you're going to bring to market some guests really want to have that personal experience I've traveled

[00:08:37] long in a different place and I'm an extrovert whatever your your story is so we're just adding

[00:08:41] another channel which is the positive part just like a good lobby design actually allows people

[00:08:46] to kind of choose their level of engagement right some people want to be right in the middle

[00:08:50] everyone needs to see me in my beautiful gown or whatever it is or some people like to tuck away

[00:08:55] and really be off the side and by having that sort of stratification experience now go to public

[00:09:00] spaces go to check an experience go to the online that's only adding to the power of what a hotel can

[00:09:06] provide so as the staffing part it's a great question you brought up because even at this year's

[00:09:10] high cap hotel investment conference Asia Pacific it was talked about that in the crunch that there

[00:09:16] is right now for staffing which does affect us design wise there's really a focus to keep those

[00:09:21] staff forward facing to the guests keep those people facing out so that's a good smile a good helpful

[00:09:27] they're even foresee something coming that's the service level that people need

[00:09:31] to feel like their experience and something different from home and also that's the experience

[00:09:35] level that will keep brand loyalty so we're trying to maximize the back of house side of any

[00:09:40] for sort of efficiencies but everything I hear from all the different operators were not looking

[00:09:44] to minimize the upfront front of house guest engaging side of things in fact that technology is

[00:09:50] going to get freedom up to be a little bit more able to get off the keyboard you've seen front

[00:09:54] desks obviously evolve it's more pod like now some now are just tablet based and that the whole

[00:09:59] reason is how can we engage with you as a fellow traveler whatever unless about like you're going

[00:10:03] to the bank that's worth it and those are all positive changes that we then as designers actually

[00:10:07] end up very specifically supporting well that approach on the basis of the operators makes great

[00:10:13] sense to me I would admit that particularly on business travel I'm a pretty self sufficient

[00:10:17] traveler but it seems like I want to be in touch with a person directly when I've got a problem

[00:10:24] for instance I mean it might be something like my television isn't working in my room you know

[00:10:29] how do I fix that and I freely admit some some of those issues might be user problem but still I

[00:10:33] need to have somebody you know give me sort of an instant lesson I don't necessarily want to go type

[00:10:38] something into a help desk right that's online I want to get it taken care of again to that point

[00:10:43] that's why all the operators are looking at let's keep this forward facing people there and

[00:10:49] that's why since you mentioned this you know staffing challenges post covid especially Southeast Asia

[00:10:54] there's just a staffing crisis not as many people available towards them is coming back as you said for

[00:10:59] sure and so right now there is a huge focus every staff dining area we design now it is a restaurant level

[00:11:07] it's got to have natural light it is meant to feel like a restaurant because all of the operators take

[00:11:11] their staff very seriously it's the number one capital investment beyond the actual building for

[00:11:16] operating costs so therefore we as designers take that very seriously too so really across the world

[00:11:22] and so many different settings we're hearing about AI we're hearing a lot of speculation on

[00:11:26] what AI will do or what it won't do eventually going forward but within the realm of hospitality

[00:11:31] what is the potential of AI as we go into the future so this is less of my expertise I'll answer

[00:11:38] carefully so I don't have anybody who's listening uh you can correct me if you like what's on the

[00:11:43] the how they sell the experience and sell these services of a hotel I think there'll be a lot of

[00:11:49] opportunity to do some probably pre-filtering and figuring out what people's profiles are again

[00:11:54] the soft good side that's probably easy to do the brick and mortar of a hotel whether it's the

[00:11:59] architecture the interior design whatever I think again to digital media and integration some choices

[00:12:05] that we've already seen that change over time that will happen you know people are toyed with the idea

[00:12:09] if we have guest rooms they get set up for a person's preference that's always been this sort of

[00:12:13] hypothetical could we do it it's just too costly to do but I don't see AI changing that it's

[00:12:18] interesting for us as designers also people say ah AI is going to replace some of the functions

[00:12:23] I still believe and the people who work at hoteliers and people working the the brand the operator's

[00:12:30] side too is there's so much complexity to a hotel much like a hospital that AI could do some things

[00:12:35] to make some tasks efficient for us to do studies to evaluate design space layout but that final

[00:12:41] knitting of everything together which goes back to a business plan for the operator the business

[00:12:45] plan of the developer how you selling this hotel in the market that's still got to have that

[00:12:49] human touch to have some nuance to it and so that doesn't yeah it doesn't threaten me I don't feel

[00:12:54] what we're doing well in fact that's our very approach to design technology too within the firm

[00:13:00] human designers are always going to have to lead the process but that our tools our digital tools AI

[00:13:05] tools just help to generate options evaluate them and ultimately help our clients to make better

[00:13:11] decisions right I mean isn't that the approach we take you mentioned the tremendous proliferation

[00:13:17] of brands out there within overall parent companies made it to all staggering almost now when

[00:13:22] you go to some of the different brands websites to see all the different sub brands I imagine that

[00:13:27] there is an amount of rebranding and reflagging of existing facilities out there particularly as

[00:13:34] they're aging and they're needing to be reposition can you talk about innovative approaches

[00:13:38] that we can employ to help these facilities to remain competitive yeah this is another exciting

[00:13:46] evolution for hospitality design and the hospital then the hotel industry a couple of specifics

[00:13:53] yes there's now a lot of specific brands within the Mera family Hilton family Accora etc.

[00:13:59] And there's business reasons behind that again brand loyalty is one of the biggest ones

[00:14:02] keep people in your loyalty program I think the biggest benefit to the gas to the traveler has been

[00:14:09] there's now a huge variety of lifestyle brands select service still traditional luxury brands

[00:14:15] that you would expect a Walder for story of you know even a sofa tell them or modern take but

[00:14:20] you know there's those core brands you know what the DNA is and now with the emergence

[00:14:25] yeah especially the past 10 years but it started more than that is lifestyle brands allow some

[00:14:29] flexibility it benefits the parent company it benefits the traveler too like I want to keep my

[00:14:35] Marriott points being a what this or my Accora points I say let's go with the core and the Ho Chi Minh

[00:14:42] city M gallery hotel heritage building with a great art collection but small guest rooms actually

[00:14:47] that's what I want to stay because I love the feeling and I want to see the art collection that

[00:14:51] happens to be there again we've just given now a whole new opportunity for how guests can experience

[00:14:55] hotels it is a fun challenge for us as designers because within a parent company Accora Hilton

[00:15:02] Merad etc we have to be careful we are stewards of their brand and so when the brand is let's say

[00:15:08] it's double tree by Hilton Hilton doesn't want that design to grow and feel start feeling like

[00:15:13] it's a standard street forward Hilton flag nor they want that to feel designed down to be Mikey

[00:15:19] Hilton Garden in that is a serious responsibility that we as designers bear to make sure we'd live

[00:15:25] in the right product and marketplace so that brand expansion it creates this interesting challenge for

[00:15:30] us and of course then looking laterally to the their competitors how do we make sure that double tree

[00:15:33] by Hilton is positioned better or looking comparable whatever to Accora Merad etc that's that is the

[00:15:39] fun part of what we're doing now with that expansion of brands well correct something that's really

[00:15:44] fundamentally important to Gensler at this moment in time is doing eco-friendly design for our clients

[00:15:51] designing sustainability and resilient new buildings and even repositioning old ones can you talk a

[00:15:57] little bit about what steps hotels are taking to bring sustainable design into their projects yeah

[00:16:04] this is definitely fortunately I'm very happy I've been in this industry for 30 years now in the

[00:16:09] past 10 years it's really taken very seriously by the operators and the investors I'll go back

[00:16:16] to my metaphor of the hotel industry being a slow-moving cargo ship though it is tough to change that

[00:16:22] so let's talk about a couple things that can be done in our being done now so when we look at

[00:16:26] designing a hotel like I said we we're designing things to be 40 years at least of structure so

[00:16:32] that concrete all the embedded carbon approach we have in time in right now we're trying to cut out

[00:16:38] between 8 to 10 percent of concrete and the structural design just guess what never see it

[00:16:43] not for cost reasons just to minimize that impact those are things we're able to do but honestly

[00:16:48] it's it's shaving percentage points off of the whole equation so there's something but

[00:16:53] for hotels the operating expense and operating impact really is water and electricity

[00:16:58] that's still a big thing the water part has been addressed there's much more efficiency in some systems

[00:17:04] which is great that comes from both the operator side but also other consultants again that's

[00:17:09] the beauty of hotel design like when we design a hotel is architects there's 14 15 consultants

[00:17:13] involved they're so complex so one industry mechanical equipment plumbing equipment they might

[00:17:19] be able to make some efficiency changes whereas we as architects can't quite do so much so the water

[00:17:23] part has been changing a little but existing hotels it's tough to change turn that around to electricity

[00:17:29] there actually has been a lot of great changes and this is the integration of new intelligent systems

[00:17:35] for management systems yes this is a cost but once we get into a guest room that is now managing the

[00:17:41] energy in the hotel so for example the new pan pacific on orchard road in Singapore

[00:17:48] great example of when the guest is out of the room the roller blinds go down because obviously

[00:17:53] we have a lot of solar heat gain here in Singapore that then keeps the room a little bit cooler which

[00:17:58] means we're using the AC a little bit less though all those little measures count especially when you

[00:18:02] have a 200 300 room property so those things again incremental improvements but definitely needed

[00:18:09] and those cost was the cost of those room management systems has come down greatly over the years

[00:18:15] those are good things here's the thing that goes back to ESG the thing that we can change much more

[00:18:20] readily now is food waste and how FMB is done so the old days of you know the huge buffet and

[00:18:28] tragically so much food gets thrown out and the operators all know that and there is a

[00:18:33] both social conscious as well as operating cost focused to improve that some brands are on the

[00:18:39] the front edge of the curve some brands or operators are not there yet I think that's for a lot

[00:18:44] of local operators really have to pay attention a lot of local people have thrown hotels we as

[00:18:49] designers it's going to change how we lay out FMB again also it's going to change a bit of the

[00:18:54] back of house so it's all that embedded images into the food that's grown transportation prepped

[00:19:01] cooked scraped and it's out to the trash and that's that cycle that if we can minimize that

[00:19:06] it's going to decrease or have a small impact on sustainable design ESG taking things away from

[00:19:11] the community and being a better neighbor that's the big impact I think it's a real positive

[00:19:17] that is great and even small changes add up to make a big difference so we'll remain committed to

[00:19:23] seeing that our buildings at least do less harm to the environment yeah let me add one more point

[00:19:28] on that again when we go to design how to tell the client which I'm doing many right now in our region

[00:19:34] we approach as being an advocate where the client's advocate it's a huge investment it takes four

[00:19:39] years to design hotel and get it built there's a lot of decision-making that is really forward

[00:19:45] thinking at least predictions are best guesses you know based on some analysis so it takes

[00:19:52] all those different design partners including the operator including the owner to make these

[00:19:57] decisions early if possible and then once a building's built to again circle back with the right

[00:20:01] advocates consultants to look at what can we change and modify it's it's rarely a one channel

[00:20:08] solution like that and that's what I love about the industry it's very complex and interwoven

[00:20:11] but two that's where we in our role as architects and tier designers and planners too really

[00:20:17] can help to guide that process whether it's existing or new build let's pursue that a little bit

[00:20:22] because I mean one of the things I think is great about the way you approach things is you really

[00:20:27] understand the industry you understand what our clients are trying to achieve you know you got an

[00:20:32] eye on trying to keep the first cost of the construction low you're also really trying to

[00:20:37] help the operator enhance revenue over time too but it can't just be about that I mean we as

[00:20:43] designers and being advocates for our clients have to bring in the aesthetic and the functional

[00:20:47] part of things too and you know what's going to make the property delightful in the case of hospitality

[00:20:52] for for people to stay how do you navigate that balancing act and get to some kind of equaler group

[00:20:59] yeah so this is things I've learned from others the core is again as I've said because hotels

[00:21:04] specifically are such big investments they need to generate revenue because they pay back loans

[00:21:10] over a long period of time and that revenue generation is very important but it's tied back to

[00:21:14] a guest experience that guest experiences got to be special unique and competitive in the marketplace

[00:21:20] there's that beautiful you know dichotomy almost of generally revenue off of giving a great experience

[00:21:27] so the focus on the business part I think we as designers inherently anyone in the general

[00:21:32] public would know architects and tier designers we create beautiful spaces that's what people

[00:21:36] assume to be what we do and we do that and we have many beautiful projects what I've heard from hotel

[00:21:42] operators and some owners in the past was that okay it was beautiful I paid for this material

[00:21:48] and it wore out in a year or I paid for this and I never big lobby and it cost a lot to claim

[00:21:54] maintain empty chairs all the time that's where I started to realize oh they just made a huge

[00:21:58] investment and how can we as designers be a little more thoughtful have some perspective into their

[00:22:04] business and that's really where it's just come from so yes it it's absolutely balanced between

[00:22:08] the aesthetic which we're trained to do in university and through our careers but that investment

[00:22:13] part is super important to our clients and if they have a profitable hotel they're going to put

[00:22:21] a lot of that money back into renovations as you talk to the beginning gave about guest experience

[00:22:25] are going to put them into programming so it actually benefits all those travelers in the future to

[00:22:30] the better it performs so it's not a singular focus it's just sometimes that business side of our

[00:22:35] client gets overshadowed with a design design beautiful part and that's why I want to I always

[00:22:40] making sure those scales are balanced in any design meeting we have with clients so if the pandemic

[00:22:46] taught us anything it seems like it's that we can't have economic health in the world unless we

[00:22:52] have human health and so there's a huge focus on wellness even more and more emphasis on that as we

[00:22:58] so sort of go through our daily lives so given everything that we've been through in terms of

[00:23:04] health in the last several years how important is wellness in hospitality settings as we look forward

[00:23:12] yeah I'll answer this in a couple of ways as well what I've learned from our clients and I again

[00:23:17] I really also stayed really close to the operators and brands as I was interested in see how they

[00:23:21] see the upcoming market those changes are really again in the soft goods it's the the systems that

[00:23:26] are there how do we provide something for a guest the opportunity for truly our people focused on

[00:23:32] an experience that's more than just a bed a hot shower in my free meal for breakfast and I'm out

[00:23:37] the door that's definitely coming on the demand side from traveling guests whether it's for leisure

[00:23:43] or for business how that results in design changes it's not really like a tidal wave of change

[00:23:49] so spas being which can add on service to be more wellness focused whether it be yoga whatever bringing

[00:23:56] a rakey people different things that are different offerings if we design a building well we should have

[00:24:02] some flexibility in that space they can mutate over time to provide that new service unless you're

[00:24:07] specific equipment that's needs on the architecture side yeah yeah it's not quite changing as much of

[00:24:12] what we do interior design wise yeah because again all the pieces that go into a space from lighting

[00:24:20] to what we call FF and E furniture fixtures and equipment all those things that people see

[00:24:26] and then integrate with the OS and E operating systems and equipment with the owner provides all

[00:24:30] that has to get knit knit together but we as the interior designers that's starting to change as

[00:24:35] there's different needs but again it's really going to come back to its what the properties offering

[00:24:40] and I think the biggest thing that is changing is as I mentioned before the opportunity and engagement

[00:24:44] with local community connecting people to that authentic experience that's the value part

[00:24:50] that's the value add the people are going to pay for it doesn't have to go back to the bricks and

[00:24:54] mortar electricity lighting air conditioning to make that experience happen that's really where

[00:24:59] the change is coming so beyond hospitality we've witnessed other sectors incorporating

[00:25:04] hospitality elements into into design features how does this impact it overall customer experience

[00:25:10] can you talk about other sort of practice areas that are impacting they're being impacted by

[00:25:14] hospitality design yeah and this is actually one of the really I think fun exciting changes in

[00:25:21] built environment supporting people societies groups activities is that hospitality sensibility

[00:25:28] is bleeding out into other built environments and it's doing that for a good reason hospitality

[00:25:34] hotels restaurants clubs bars conference that it's always been something people have expectations

[00:25:40] it's got to be something special good it's also about the service that comes with it really our

[00:25:45] buildings are the backdrop that the service that's provided is really what the guest is engaging with

[00:25:49] people like I have such a good feeling here and yet I hate my experience at the bank for example or

[00:25:53] wherever it was a natural for that to bleed over because it doesn't take too much but it does take

[00:25:58] someone and we as interior designers and architects for hospitality there's certain kind of rules

[00:26:05] of thumb that will always look at and say oh we always should be doing this the seating is a great

[00:26:09] example right we're doing this a lot right now in southeast Asia in a high net worth banking

[00:26:15] situations basically the service is just having a lobby with a few chairs how can we provide

[00:26:20] a good tea for a person how can we provide a light snack for a person how is that delivered how

[00:26:25] is it recovered taken back out fresh cut flowers you know all those different layers that's normal

[00:26:30] for a hotel designer to look at it's not hard to add them into those spaces but it does take that

[00:26:36] thoughtfulness and that thoughtfulness is we're creating an ambiance for someone to come into

[00:26:41] that's meant to be enveloping and meant to be different from their daily routine that's

[00:26:45] absolutely essence of hospitality it has to engage and integrate that service component when we do

[00:26:50] that then in these different settings it does bring them to life I think this is super exciting because

[00:26:55] it's a natural thing it's only making people's lives better and for us as a design firm because we

[00:27:01] do have these different expertise we are experts in banking types of in office types of environments

[00:27:05] and healthcare etc when we can cross pollinate those things it just makes all those experiences

[00:27:12] for the end user so much better because we're really good at all those different components

[00:27:17] but I'm really proud of that actually the way to do that yeah I mean you're in high design these days

[00:27:21] you and your approach to things and so and I think it's right and it's only helping improve the

[00:27:27] experience every day experience for people who are using building using the spaces that we design

[00:27:33] looking ahead you all are always looking ahead he talked a little bit about a few things in

[00:27:38] the future but what do you see over some of the factors that are going to shape the future of

[00:27:42] the hospitality industry as we go into the next decade or so oh boy okay so my crystal ball is

[00:27:48] smaller than others but I'm going to give it my best shot and I'll all answer that as a designer who

[00:27:53] pays attention to the the business side of what our clients are doing a good hotel will always

[00:27:58] need to have that the basics I think the efficiency of space uses space is becoming more critical

[00:28:04] therefore over building some properties is becoming less palatable that's a positive use less

[00:28:09] equipment use less materials use less energy to cool the building so that's one change it's going

[00:28:16] to be coming like I said the the FMB changes they're going to be coming I think that's exciting especially

[00:28:20] in Asia Pacific there's just so much food oriented parts of life right it's so much and to have

[00:28:26] that how it's going to engage and connect and draw people in draw people out that's also so exciting

[00:28:33] now can we get people to have that meaningful food or beverage experience in our hotel as designers

[00:28:39] I love that sort of challenge how can we get that so that's going to continue to change a bit like

[00:28:43] I said the programming part engaging people and activities getting people out in the community

[00:28:48] community coming in that'll continue to evolve the biggest thing I think that's that's going to

[00:28:54] to really evolve over the next little bit here though is costs have gotten up greatly

[00:29:00] for the few staff and the tight staff staffing market that's there energy costs have got up

[00:29:05] the hotel brands I'll talk about really being super efficient and needing sharp people to be able

[00:29:11] to run a very efficient hotel building and so therefore how we also take care of the staff

[00:29:15] in a hotel that'll continue to be really high priority and the guests might not see that really

[00:29:19] but we as designers we do take care of that we take care of all the office space we take

[00:29:23] are the changing rooms the clinic room for the the nurses on property all this different things

[00:29:28] that's just becoming more important which I think is a good respect for the community that that

[00:29:31] hotel is putting well thank you Kurt this has been a great discussion do you have any sort of

[00:29:37] final thoughts for any of our team or our clients or prospective clients out there in Asia

[00:29:42] David thanks it's always fun talk with you and I love talking about this I guess the biggest thing is

[00:29:47] you know I love working in this industry and I feel privileged to be able to work related to the

[00:29:51] hospitality industry and the biggest thing that I was focused on which is important remembers we're

[00:29:56] creating experiences for people and whether it's the staff at the property which really does

[00:30:01] matter but our guests also and we can't put our guests into one box it's always about how can we

[00:30:06] provide different opportunities to evolve for guests to have that experience that's what all

[00:30:10] comes down to and it gets the beauty of it really is that guest experience that we're trying to get

[00:30:14] fantastic well thanks so much for your time today Kurt your insights have been invaluable

[00:30:19] we see that it's important for the hospitality sector to be adaptable innovative and receptive

[00:30:23] to emerging trends ensuring that they craft unforgettable guest experiences while upholding their

[00:30:28] fundamental values of sustainability and guest experience and also profitability too

[00:30:34] in doing so they can not only thrive but also play a pivotal role in shaping the future of

[00:30:38] hospitality I'd like to thank Kirk for sharing his wealth of knowledge we hope this discussion

[00:30:43] is provided all of our audience with profound insights and inspiration until next time thank you

[00:30:48] for tuning in I'm David Coffins and I will see you on the next podcast