Innovating for a Smarter & Greener Future

[00:00:01] From smart buildings that optimize energy use to modern construction techniques like modular building and 3D printing, technology is revolutionizing how we design, construct, and interact with our spaces. These advancements are not only making our buildings more efficient and sustainable, but

[00:00:29] are also reshaping our urban landscapes and the way we live and work. In this very special episode, we've partnered with Singapore's Building and Construction Authority to bring you a mini-series on the impact of technology in the built environment.

[00:00:42] To kick off this exciting series, we are joined by two experts, Jonathan Chang, Chief Technology Officer of BCA, and Vignesh Kausik, Gensler's Regional Director of Design Technology. Together, we will explore the latest trends in building technology, the challenges of

[00:00:57] integrating these new technologies, and their visions for the future of our built environment. I'm your host, David Calkins, the Regional Managing Principal of Gensler's Asia-Pacific Middle East Region, and I'm glad to welcome you to this very special podcast series presented to you by BCA and Gensler.

[00:01:16] Well welcome to the podcast, Jonathan and Vignesh. To start off, Jonathan, could you tell us a little bit about your background and give us an overview of BCA's mission and goals within the built environment? Hi, David Vignesh. Thank you for having me this morning.

[00:01:30] So for me, I have a background in material science and engineering graduated from the Nanyang Technological University of Singapore back in 2007. Well, immediately I pursued a Master's in Solar Energy from the University of New South Wales.

[00:01:46] And since then, I've been immersed in research, innovation and technology as well as green building policy. So currently, I work with a range of stakeholders in the built environment to leverage innovation and technology to build capability and gain competitive advantage.

[00:02:03] As for BCA, in terms of our mission and goals, BCA champions the development and transformation of the built environment sector. This includes real estate, construction and facilities management to improve Singapore's living environment. Overseeing areas such as safety, quality, inclusiveness, sustainability and

[00:02:23] productivity, all of which together with our stakeholders and partners help to achieve our mission to transform the built environment sector and shape a livable and smart built environment for Singapore. Well thank you. Jonathan, it's great to have you here with us in our office in Singapore today.

[00:02:40] I have been in Singapore. I came from the US in 2018 and have been impressed since I've been here in terms of the sophistication of the design and construction industry and really also been fascinated to watch the technological innovations.

[00:02:55] And I know that you all are leaders in the industry here. And so it'll be great to hear more about how you approach the work and how you're leading the way. So along that line, can you elaborate on some of the key technologies

[00:03:06] and innovations that BCA has been actively advocating for? And maybe how some of these innovations have begun to transform the construction landscape in Singapore. So I'll start on the digital front. One of the noteworthy and significant effort that is ongoing, you may have heard, is called ConnetX.

[00:03:23] So this is intended as a one-stop integrated digital short front for approval of building works. So project teams of development projects are able to collaboratively seek approval from regulatory agencies from planning to completion using a 3D model. So we hope that this will transform our current regulatory landscape

[00:03:45] and practices through adoption of what we're calling building information modeling or BIM for short, as well as collaborative workflows. So ConnetX will enhance regulatory governance to promote synergy among the agencies, offer a streamlined one-stop integrated digital front front experience.

[00:04:04] And so there will be time and cost savings for almost everyone in the industry. The second technology that I would like to share is in the area of drones. In Singapore, FASAT inspections are conducted every seven years

[00:04:16] for buildings that are more than 13 meters tall when they are over 20 years old. So the motivation is really to assist building owners in detecting and addressing FASAT deterioration in a timely manner. And instead of manually doing so, we work with stakeholders to enable drones to perform inspections.

[00:04:36] The last I would share is on robotics, particularly for those running on construction sites. Robotic solutions like painting, drilling, tiling, grouting, rebar tying and many more offer productivity gains. We are starting to see contractors conduct trials, even purchase robots to be more productive and manpower lean

[00:04:57] working alongside their highly skilled former workers. Currently there are about 16 types of solutions on more than 30 construction sites. And I hope to see hordes of robots swarming our construction sites, or maybe not hordes. We look forward to seeing that too.

[00:05:15] It's one thing to set codes and standards and rules, which certainly BCA is involved in doing, but I think your leadership is of a much more collaborative nature. Can you talk about some of those collaborative efforts between BCA and industry stakeholders in promoting and advancing

[00:05:31] some of these advanced construction technologies? I must say the need for close collaboration cannot be overstated. I mean all industry stakeholders have an important role to play in exploring, implementing and adapting advanced construction technologies across the entire construction value chain and throughout the building's life cycle.

[00:05:51] So a value chain like ours that is extensive, long, complex, requires really a deep level of trust for the whole network to function optimally. So BCA is the regulatory authority for safety and industry developer. We don't build any building unfortunately,

[00:06:11] and so must work very closely with our industry partners to achieve our policy outcomes, which include promoting and implementing advanced technologies. This is also why we are championing a value chain approach and supporting long-term partnerships between firms and your value chain partners.

[00:06:28] So back in 2022, we launched our Build Environment Industry Transformation Map or what we call ITM as a testament of the importance of collaboration with stakeholders across the value chain. So the ITM laid out the direction which we wish to guide our sector towards with three transformation areas.

[00:06:48] The first is integrated planning and design to foster greater collaboration either through digital technologies or contracting practices. Next is advanced manufacturing and assembly, really about raising the use of automation including robotics and sustainable urban systems to accelerate decarbonization efforts. Oh that's exciting, it's great.

[00:07:11] So maybe we'll swing to Vignesh for a second. Vignesh you've been on the podcast before so welcome back. Thank you. It's good to see you, I hope you've been well. Can you talk a little bit about how these advanced technologies that we're discussing

[00:07:24] enhance the efficiency and comfort of modern buildings and they contribute to the more sustainable and inclusive design? Sure, I think what Jonathan mentioned about having these technologies being driven by a government agency is phenomenal. Very few countries and very few built environment agencies actually can do this.

[00:07:45] One of the big advantages of building in Singapore was also that the BCA regulated the adoption of BIM very early compared to many other cities and then most of the cities caught up later on. So what that actually helped us to do all the consultants

[00:08:01] was to actually get on a very collaborative process. We started talking about early involvement of contractor back in 2014 when people were not even knowing that you could do that. I think because of all this it's really helped us look at buildings from a different point of view.

[00:08:19] The overall idea of looking at technology not just as a tool but more as a process itself. For example, I've been working with BCA since 2015 on computational BIM work groups. So trying to understand how computational design and automation

[00:08:38] help the design process and kind of skip a few stages to look at fabrication at a very early concept schematic stage when you wouldn't dare to do that because there's too many things changing. All these have helped us to be very efficient in the design process

[00:08:52] also helped us to be more innovative, more creative, ultimately providing a very beautiful, inclusive, livable city in all that people love to be there. Thanks, Ignash. Jonathan, this is maybe a little bit off the menu but Gensler was involved in developing some of the original lead standards

[00:09:12] in the United States when the Green Building Council was putting that together. I know Singapore has developed its own GreenMark sustainability standards. Can you talk a little bit about the process of developing that and Singapore's motivation in developing its own sustainability standards?

[00:09:27] I think we developed GreenMark back in 2005. We started our green building journey with the launch of our own rating system which was quite unique for the tropical context. I think in Singapore where we use a lot of air conditioning

[00:09:42] there was one of the motivations for us to develop our own rating system that was centered a lot more on how key systems in a typical building would be efficient as possible. Our system is led and developed by a government agency.

[00:09:56] Many of the other green building rating systems usually led and initiated by the industry and so that really gives us a bit of a different uniqueness. The other thing I would also share is that for our green mark rating system

[00:10:09] we were also very particular about not only getting certain standard at design but also verifying it during operation which tends to be the hardest. You may design it for it to be the highest but how it gets occupied would be vastly different

[00:10:23] and so we paid a lot of attention on validating verifying its performance and I think that's one of the other things that we were quite different. So that's fascinating. So then moving forward are there other initiatives and incentives and grants that BCA has implemented

[00:10:38] to encourage the adoption of green design and construction practices? So the latest addition, the green mark 2021 came about in partnership with the Singapore Green Building Council. There were three targets that came about but we are calling 808080 in 2030. The target of greening 80% of our buildings by 2030 remained.

[00:11:00] One effort is to identify and publish buildings energy performance so that owners can benchmark against others and take steps to improve. Another effort is through the green mark incentive scheme for existing buildings 2.0 basically it's a grant to support retrofitting to higher performance standards.

[00:11:20] The second target 80% of new buildings to be super low energy buildings from 2030 what we mean by super low energy at least 60% improvement in energy efficiency over 2005 levels. The government will take the lead on this front to attain the highest standards

[00:11:38] for its new and existing buildings for private developments where there is commitment to deliver higher tier standards. Building owners can enjoy something quite powerful additional floor area in land, scarves, Singapore this can be quite an incentive. Finally, 80% improvement in energy efficiency for best-in-class green buildings by 2030.

[00:12:01] Today I think the best buildings can hit maybe just a little more than 70% improvement. To get there we have an R&D program called the Green Building Innovation Cluster that supports research development demonstration. We have about total of 100 million since started in 2014

[00:12:19] and it seeks to develop alternative cooling technologies, data-driven smart building solutions, next generation ventilation approaches. So we hope these efforts so far together with our industry shows that commitment for us in Singapore to transit to a more sustainable and low carbon build environment.

[00:12:35] Yeah those are all wonderful initiatives. Our personal opinion is that there is a tremendous opportunity all across Asia really to reinvigorate and make more efficient an aging building stock. There was probably a building boom 30 years or more and so these buildings now need to be spruced up

[00:12:51] but they can also be made incredibly more efficient in the process. Fignash back to you again, can you tell us a little bit about what role sustainability plays in Gensler's long-term strategy for the built environment

[00:13:02] and how we Gensler are working to balance rapid technology advancement with environmental stewardship? Absolutely I think one of the big initiatives that we had was called us the G-Planet. Now what G-Planet did was to actually look at all kinds of engines, tools available

[00:13:22] that are open source and available in the market to kind of then shrink wrap it in a way that is useful for architects and designers to use it at a much earlier stage than concept design stage. So you're able to run validated simulations like daylight analysis,

[00:13:38] solar radiation analysis, natural wind potential analysis, all that were typically available at a much later stage by a sustainability consultant. By then most of the design decisions are made and then you are not able to make a lot of big design changes.

[00:13:55] So what if these tools were available to architects that is able to work on top of the design tools that we already use? So that was the idea for G-Planet and we had a whole change management strategy

[00:14:07] to teach all of our architects and designers to use these tools as part of the design process. So what that allowed us to do in similar ways to what Greenmark did actually back in the day was

[00:14:18] compared to LEED, LEED was more of a checklist approach to making sure that you think about different aspects of sustainability but what Greenmark even at that time did was to take a slightly more evidence-based approach

[00:14:30] in actually calculating the numbers and prove it to me that it actually works through a simulation. It actually then helps the consultants to also not just compare options in front of clients from an aesthetic functional perspective, business value perspective

[00:14:44] but also from a sustainability perspective to make the right design decision based on a number of sustainability factors. Now to your point we got to monitor how do they get occupied and how do these things connect to FM systems, the facility management systems

[00:14:59] and how are we able to measure it? That is still something that technology for that is evolving as well and I think 5G sensors will play a big role in stuff like this.

[00:15:08] The other part of the sustainability conversation that we've been focusing on for the last couple of years is the embodied carbon part of it. So all these resilient simulations and daylight and managing the amount of heat falling on the facade

[00:15:21] and all this is going to contribute to the operational part of it but how much energy we spend to even get that building done and to your point about retrofitting, why is retrofitting a very very efficient way is you're not pulling a building down?

[00:15:34] By retrofitting how much embodied carbon are we saving? So calculating embodied carbon as it turns out is really really hard. To that level of detail that we want, yes we could get to ballparks but to understand where the material comes from, especially for Singapore

[00:15:51] and to be able to calculate that has been a big challenge again not just in Singapore but across the world and that is a challenge we are taking head on with some of the carbon tools that we've been working on. Imagine if you're having a BIM model

[00:16:05] and while you're doing the BIM model you're able to understand exactly how much embodied carbon is this going to take. So you're able to take decisions on whether should I have this carpet

[00:16:15] which is some other carpet, should I use this kind of material for concrete or something else? What will be the delta in terms of embodied carbon and how does that contribute to other aspects of sustainability or structural performance and all of that?

[00:16:31] I think that's the future that we are going into because it looks like embodied energy and operational energy is about 50-50, slightly here and there depending on where you're getting things built but I think both are equally important.

[00:16:44] Well I think one of the things that we are sharing in common we're both trying to push our industry, the suppliers and the manufacturers to be more transparent and to disclose more information

[00:16:52] and that's going to help us move things ahead too so you can really tell what's happening. Exactly and I think the rate at which products are being developed by various vendors I think this information is almost like your nutrition label that you get on your food right

[00:17:08] that they have to reveal what exactly it is. Tell me what goes in. Yeah, tell me what goes in right and how much energy goes in. Well and what was the source of the energy? Current, what's the source of that energy?

[00:17:18] Is it clean energy then is it coal based? So I think that kind of nutrition label for products is becoming mandatory and some vendors that are very sustainability minded, resilience minded are sharing this with us but overall I think we would need a much more proactive participation

[00:17:36] from the entire built industry in this regard actually. I mean I would just add that many corporates have and are starting to set very ambitious net zero targets and that includes both operational and embodied carbon so that really sends a very strong signal to all their clients

[00:17:51] their supply chains have to be in order they need to start to find ways to reduce their footprint otherwise the corporates may choose not to go with them and that would affect their own competitive advantage.

[00:18:03] Well in fact that's one of the things we're trying to focus on too is these corporates making these commitments and maybe not knowing exactly how to attain them so we're trying to work with them to figure that out how they get to the

[00:18:14] future that they really want to see. So let's take up another hot topic which is artificial intelligence AI. Vignesh you talked about a number of the tools that you've been busy developing and that we're

[00:18:25] implementing at this point how do you see AI impacting those and maybe even taking them farther and Jonathan I'd be interested if you had an opinion on these. Well I mean I think it would be an understatement to say that AI is coming actually it's here

[00:18:39] it's here it's making a big impact especially to our design process when last year especially on the image generation part came about to be scaringly good nobody expected it to be so

[00:18:52] good so soon. The pace at which this is developing is amazing. Previously if you wanted to be very creative and explore multiple design options your process was that I sketch multiple ideas I got to model them in a 3D modeling software and then I got to render them

[00:19:12] but with the advent of AI and basically the image generation part of AI we are able to now sketch an idea and render it first so you're able to get to visualizing an idea to a very good detail

[00:19:26] very early and explore multiple ideas very quickly as well and then based on these ideation process you can choose which idea holds the most promise and then you go and

[00:19:38] model that we are able to now test multiple ideas very quickly without having to spend a lot of time creating models so then that allows us to be more competitive you don't need as many man hours to do

[00:19:50] certain exploration it allows people to be more creative all that results in actually looking at all the things I could do for a certain project have I actually understood the solution space

[00:20:03] and then you can make very good decisions from then on it's really changed the game I would say if I can add big dash what I understand is you know with architects you are able to develop a whole

[00:20:14] range of different designs and one of the nightmare I imagine is when your client wishes to make changes to the design after you have sort of agreed to you know a certain way and that

[00:20:25] can require you redoing it and then providing options even to your clients for them to choose and I can imagine with the whole wealth of digital designs that architects would have this process would be significantly reduced for the benefit hopefully for the architects

[00:20:40] maybe the client wouldn't take advantage of it actually that's that's one of the worries for people is that people are going to be like oh now you can do it for much lesser time let's

[00:20:50] make you do a hundred times so but actually the idea is that previously for you to make design changes and communicate those changes you need to have a high fidelity model now with this what

[00:21:02] you could do is you could actually work with a low fidelity model and then render it have those discussions and once those discussions are kind of settled then you actually go and create the

[00:21:13] high fidelity model now there is no way you can escape the high fidelity model because we are still communicating using drawings we still have to provide a BIM model for the sake of submissions

[00:21:23] and for all the authorities to look at so we're not going to get rid of that but how we get there has changed and that's what's going to drive the way we look at project timelines we can actually

[00:21:34] tangibly show to a client that by giving us a little bit more time you can actually have a phenomenal range of ideas that we can put in front of you so I think that's going to help us too

[00:21:47] well and we have the ability to analyze those to a really finite point to say these are the best solutions and I think it's not too hard to imagine a day when the tool knows everything

[00:21:59] there is to know about a certain thing so we develop this high fidelity model and then we take the tool and say okay now make this as sustainable as it can possibly be how do we

[00:22:08] do that and it'll come back well I mean I would like to believe that it's almost impossible to take the human out of this and as I usually say the analogy that I use Jonathan is

[00:22:19] we are creating Iron Man and Iron Woman within Gensler so what that means is that everyone that you see outside of this room is Tony Stark and we are just designing their suit the suit alone can't

[00:22:32] do the job Tony alone won't do the job it's when Tony and the suit comes together right it's the analogy of how we develop technology I think to your point David all these models that we are

[00:22:43] doing are extremely data rich we have not been able to have a way to mine these data because the semantics and the structure that's needed for data was never established until recently so at least

[00:22:57] now within Gensler every project that we do we have tools that allow us to actually create those semantics in a way that it goes into a database so this amount of data and insights can

[00:23:08] really change the game for our clients as well because we are not manually counting this in an Excel file and this is where the machine helps us is to crunch data at a speed much much greater than

[00:23:19] what we are used to and give us insights so our designers can make better design decisions. If I can add anyone to talk about AI basically need proper data the construction sector has always been joked about being low in productivity low in digitalization and so

[00:23:36] really there's been a big move to shift the industry from paper 2d to 3d so I mentioned about Cornet X and by bringing all the agencies together the industry together to get a seamless experience with getting regulatory approvals which hopefully will be faster you will leave

[00:23:54] a digital footprint in the form of a 3d model what we hope is that model doesn't stay just at that point the real value is unlocked when you use it beyond regulatory processes you could pick

[00:24:06] up information on the tender cost estimates and in fact what's more powerful is that same model can follow all the way through construction to operation and management where the developer could have that one model used for management purposes right but I know it's not as

[00:24:22] straightforward getting there but the Cornet X hopefully sets the industry on that direction to realize and unlock many of these opportunities well that's fabulous Vignesh and I have talked about the nature of our industry keeping us from making rapid progress in that our industry is very fragmented

[00:24:39] here you've got designers here you've got owners here you've got stuff pliers and manufacturers here you've got contractors there are some common interests but they're also divergent interests and so we're different than somebody like SpaceX we're not doing the design and the

[00:24:54] construction and the testing and all that it's not one entity we're all sort of all over the place so the great part about what you're doing is you're sort of bringing all those groups together and

[00:25:03] trying to say we're going to facilitate this is going to be the way forward we're going to get more efficient and effective as an industry so that's a great thing which y'all are doing so you talked about a number of things Jonathan that you're starting to implement but

[00:25:15] can you talk about other key policy changes regulatory frameworks that BCA is considering to further support technology advancement in the built environment so back in 2022 Singapore raised its national climate target to achieve net zero emissions by 2050 in Singapore

[00:25:32] our buildings account for over 20 percent of Singapore's emissions so greening our buildings has been a key strategy to achieve our sustainability ambitions and climate change commitments so we've been on our green building journey for almost two decades so to accelerate our efforts to decarbonize

[00:25:51] our built environment we are placing emphasis on existing buildings with poor energy performance a mandatory energy improvement or what we call MEI regime will be introduced by the end of this year it will apply to the most energy intensive buildings of a certain size what these buildings

[00:26:11] have to do is they would have to undergo an energy audit to really know where they are where the opportunities lie implement importantly measures to improve their performance another area that's much longer term research and development has been a key enabler and at

[00:26:29] the national level plans are refreshed and made every five years this is what we term the research innovation and enterprise and the next time frame will be for 2026 to 2030 so for our built environment sector we will definitely continue our commitment to advancing research

[00:26:47] and innovation in the areas that BCA looks at from safety sustainability productivity an area that we will also be paying attention I think David mentioned briefly earlier is in the aging buildings and infrastructure I think it's an important area to delve deeper into understanding

[00:27:07] how our buildings age and allow us to you know gain better insight into the decision of whether we should repair rejuvenate repurpose or rebuild and I think this is an issue that all cities

[00:27:19] face so we're going to go back to you for a second as an architect deeply enmeshed in developing these technological solutions and all how have you seen gansler integrating these into projects and what tangible impacts have you observed on projects oh that's a great question

[00:27:36] I think ultimately if the tangible benefits of using these tools are not realized not communicated to the clients they wouldn't understand why are we even investing so much into reinventing our

[00:27:50] design process in the last few years what we have done is to also work very closely with our clients to kind of take them along in the process so when we work with such a client we work very

[00:28:01] closely with them to understand their data semantics and try to put that into our model so we're able to measure that for example while we are doing a test fit for a workplace client we're able

[00:28:13] to measure from the model all kinds of data insights like efficiencies how many number of seats there are what's the ratio between meeting rooms to people all these things that typically

[00:28:25] you've got to stop your process go to excel put the numbers over do all your formula and get it but now our designers are able to do that while they are modeling in the tool itself our clients

[00:28:36] have really loved it to a point where another really large technology client they saw this in our pitch and then they actually added all this into their RFP the next time to say that

[00:28:48] this becomes a base standard now anyone who's going to come to us has to do this so in some way we are kind of also pushing slowly the industry forward and what value an architect can bring to

[00:28:59] the project beyond just producing drawings in that sense thanks vignesh so this is for both of you jonathan and vignesh if our goal is to make singapore a truly smart and sustainable place in terms of the built environment what are the most important factors in getting us there

[00:29:16] and then how do we make sure that all parts of society in our industry are being taken along with us i think there must be three main aspects there must be like-minded stakeholders

[00:29:27] there must be relevant solutions and what i'm calling a welcoming ecosystem it is for me and how we are approaching innovation and tech we do our best to see whether we can focus our resources on

[00:29:39] high impact areas whether we invest research or do we simply just buy off these solutions and i think in doing that that would be where we can make some of these solutions that we

[00:29:51] make available more beneficial to a wider group of stakeholders the other area is on encouraging open innovation and in doing so we can strengthen our ecosystem and allow us to introduce tech quickly into the sector so one of the programs a built environment accelerate to market program

[00:30:11] it's really an open innovation program for our sector that started in i believe 2019 that brings together demand drivers and solution providers so you can imagine back in 2019 many of our companies contractors consultants developers may not actively think about innovation

[00:30:29] but i think over the years what he has done with the program is that it's created more attention about challenges that companies face and to also let them know that there are solutions out there both locally and globally we'll be starting to see better recognition better

[00:30:45] receptivity to embarking on open innovation the other aspect that i would just share is really about easing barriers to integrating tech in our sector and it's not just merely about grants money isn't the only solution to adoption beyond that really it's about how we can overcome

[00:31:05] regulatory issues right because many innovations do tend to face such challenges and that's where bca as a regulatory authority can come in lean forward bring together the other regulatory agencies to attempt to facilitate some of the challenges that solutions may face the other

[00:31:23] is really about networks that's about our own networks the networks of our partners and then how do we bring them together so last year the bca repositioned our bridal campus as an innovation hub the idea is really to leverage our campus to bring together various stakeholders

[00:31:41] and to activate various possibilities one is to bring in promising solution providers who can take up the space and be amongst one another the other is we are prepared to offer our spaces

[00:31:53] for test building and trials with partners who see value in doing it on the campus and the other one that's more fun is what we call tech exchange and networking sessions really about curating solution providers in certain technology themes bringing together the relevant demand drivers

[00:32:11] and companies to come together to not only learn about that but more importantly to interact and network and strengthen that ecosystem among the networks that one another would have and so this is really how we've been approaching this and hope to be able to continue to do so

[00:32:26] to back upon what Jonathan said about networks and bringing like-minded people I think it's really great that's exactly what we are also doing with Singapore Institute of Architects we recently had a hackathon session on AI where industry practitioners come together to provide

[00:32:44] really cool solutions for industry problems the point about all this is all these are open source we all just come together as a community to create open source tools that any small mid-sized firms

[00:32:56] can then take and use it and even extend the functionality of that and add on top of that so it's a very creative computational AI people coming together to kind of do certain things for

[00:33:09] the industry and it's great that BCA and SA is facilitating that bringing like-minded people together Jonathan with the International Built Environment Week approaching could you give our audience a preview of what to expect at that conference and why the event is so significant

[00:33:26] for our industry BCA together with our partner Rx one of the world's largest B2B events company is hosting the International Build Environment Week or IBEW from 4th to 6th September in Singapore this year is our sixth edition and the theme is solving for tomorrow today

[00:33:50] the week will feature a curated conference so we're in the midst of bringing together notable speakers both locally and globally a trade exhibition called Bex Asia and a new segment that we are trying out a contact summit that we've injected into the week to bring together

[00:34:11] investors, venture capitalists, startups, demand drivers and we expect to welcome more than 10,000 attendees and delegates so it's going to be a really exciting week so I hope you'll be able to join us that week in September please mark your calendars and come to Singapore

[00:34:29] absolutely Vignesh and I are both looking forward to it very much well our time is pretty well flown by but Jonathan and Vignesh your insights have been invaluable here it's been a great conversation as we conclude this episode it's clear that technology is a pivotal enabler of

[00:34:43] better and more sustainable design and BCA is at the forefront of the industry serving as a catalyst for widespread innovation while Gensler's initiatives are leading the charge towards a sustainable and inclusive future powered by advanced technology so thank you both for sharing

[00:34:57] your wealth of knowledge and experience with us today I'm excited about the rest of this series and I want to thank our listeners for tuning in I'm David Calkins and I look forward to having you join us for our next episodes